Comments on: politics lesson for the year: avoid pastors? http://onefinemess.rhinopanda.net/2008/05/27/politics-lesson-for-the-year-avoid-pastors/ The blog formerly known as Onefinemess. Sun, 29 Jan 2012 20:45:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Andy http://onefinemess.rhinopanda.net/2008/05/27/politics-lesson-for-the-year-avoid-pastors/#comment-739 Andy Fri, 30 May 2008 14:12:15 +0000 http://onefinemess.wordpress.com/?p=325#comment-739 Most of the conversation of value are neverending, that's how people learn and grow. and shit. PS. I got an email back from the akismet people today saying you should be fixed...soooo we shall see eh. Most of the conversation of value are neverending, that’s how people learn and grow. and shit.

PS. I got an email back from the akismet people today saying you should be fixed…soooo we shall see eh.

]]> By: Bethany http://onefinemess.rhinopanda.net/2008/05/27/politics-lesson-for-the-year-avoid-pastors/#comment-734 Bethany Fri, 30 May 2008 04:52:31 +0000 http://onefinemess.wordpress.com/?p=325#comment-734 Yeah. It's like speaking two different languages here. Anyway, this could go on forever so let me just say a) God is the definer because He offers salvation (through His son, doy) and lays out the principles to live by. Ie, if you are not living thus, then you are not. It's not really something you can claim and define except to other human beings and who cares about that. And ... yeah, we'll just end with that one. Feel free to email me (any interested party) but I'm sure you're exhausted of salvaging my comments from your spam filter and having the neverending conversation. So, yeah. Jesus loves you. Yeah. It’s like speaking two different languages here.

Anyway, this could go on forever so let me just say a) God is the definer because He offers salvation (through His son, doy) and lays out the principles to live by. Ie, if you are not living thus, then you are not. It’s not really something you can claim and define except to other human beings and who cares about that. And … yeah, we’ll just end with that one. Feel free to email me (any interested party) but I’m sure you’re exhausted of salvaging my comments from your spam filter and having the neverending conversation. So, yeah. Jesus loves you.

]]> By: Andy http://onefinemess.rhinopanda.net/2008/05/27/politics-lesson-for-the-year-avoid-pastors/#comment-735 Andy Fri, 30 May 2008 03:57:47 +0000 http://onefinemess.wordpress.com/?p=325#comment-735 Well. I wasn't using anything to gain understanding, I was using it to simplify/illustrate a statement I was trying to make about alternate interpretations of the will of God as pertaining to free will and point out that "serious" thinkers have done the same legwork that my friends and I used to do. And probably did it better - so reading them may be more educational that me attempting to rehash old debates. I'm not sure how God would be the definer for Christianity either, as it's just one of many labels applied to a large subset of his self-claimed followers. It's a human term, for a human creation. So the first use of the term in the Bible is Acts 11:25-26 right (and it looks like the other usages of the term don't ascribe any magic meaning to it)? It doesn't say who is doing the labeling, but I seriously doubt it was the voice of God that boomed out "Hey, ya'll are Christians. How's them apples?" (In Greek or whatnot of course since they were in Tarsus). In a general sense, sure the Bible as the word of God is telling the followers how to be "Christians", but in the specific sense, it is not. If people knew exactly what the Bible was saying they wouldn't need pastors/teachers/preachers to spell it all out for them. So to me, what a Christian is, seems up for discussion no matter what angle you look at it from. Well. I wasn’t using anything to gain understanding, I was using it to simplify/illustrate a statement I was trying to make about alternate interpretations of the will of God as pertaining to free will and point out that “serious” thinkers have done the same legwork that my friends and I used to do. And probably did it better – so reading them may be more educational that me attempting to rehash old debates.

I’m not sure how God would be the definer for Christianity either, as it’s just one of many labels applied to a large subset of his self-claimed followers. It’s a human term, for a human creation. So the first use of the term in the Bible is Acts 11:25-26 right (and it looks like the other usages of the term don’t ascribe any magic meaning to it)? It doesn’t say who is doing the labeling, but I seriously doubt it was the voice of God that boomed out “Hey, ya’ll are Christians. How’s them apples?” (In Greek or whatnot of course since they were in Tarsus).

In a general sense, sure the Bible as the word of God is telling the followers how to be “Christians”, but in the specific sense, it is not. If people knew exactly what the Bible was saying they wouldn’t need pastors/teachers/preachers to spell it all out for them. So to me, what a Christian is, seems up for discussion no matter what angle you look at it from.

]]> By: Bethany http://onefinemess.rhinopanda.net/2008/05/27/politics-lesson-for-the-year-avoid-pastors/#comment-737 Bethany Thu, 29 May 2008 18:46:16 +0000 http://onefinemess.wordpress.com/?p=325#comment-737 It's not up to us to interpret the Bible but no one who isn't actually striving to be Christian will understand what that means. And I don't define Christianity, God does. But clearly having discussions where one of us is using wikipedia to gain understanding isn't the right forum for such a discussion. :P You know I love you. It’s not up to us to interpret the Bible but no one who isn’t actually striving to be Christian will understand what that means. And I don’t define Christianity, God does. But clearly having discussions where one of us is using wikipedia to gain understanding isn’t the right forum for such a discussion. :P You know I love you.

]]> By: Andy http://onefinemess.rhinopanda.net/2008/05/27/politics-lesson-for-the-year-avoid-pastors/#comment-736 Andy Thu, 29 May 2008 15:14:03 +0000 http://onefinemess.wordpress.com/?p=325#comment-736 I'm not sure the definition has anything to do with this. The folks who were the subject of the post themselves claimed to be Christian. Sure, maybe other Christians wouldn't consider them "Christian", but they probably feel the same way about such and such. From the outside, they just look like different flavors of the same thing. There are a couple branches of Christianity that believe in predestination. There are several interpretations of it that allow for free will. The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination#Various_views_on_Christian_predestination" rel="nofollow">wiki entry</a> has some fancy names for some of them. I don't think I'm using it in the simple, straightforward manner that you think I am. IIRC it was a discussion topic from my church going days, and that was a fairly mainstream assembly of god/pentecostal/charismatic type thing. Now, that doesn't mean it was church doctrine/dogma/whatever Christians call the accepted tenets of their sects, I forget. It just means it came up from time to time, and was something we debated/discussed. Because it all boils down to the Bible right? And how you interpret it. I’m not sure the definition has anything to do with this.

The folks who were the subject of the post themselves claimed to be Christian. Sure, maybe other Christians wouldn’t consider them “Christian”, but they probably feel the same way about such and such. From the outside, they just look like different flavors of the same thing.

There are a couple branches of Christianity that believe in predestination. There are several interpretations of it that allow for free will. The wiki entry has some fancy names for some of them. I don’t think I’m using it in the simple, straightforward manner that you think I am.

IIRC it was a discussion topic from my church going days, and that was a fairly mainstream assembly of god/pentecostal/charismatic type thing. Now, that doesn’t mean it was church doctrine/dogma/whatever Christians call the accepted tenets of their sects, I forget. It just means it came up from time to time, and was something we debated/discussed. Because it all boils down to the Bible right? And how you interpret it.

]]> By: Bethany http://onefinemess.rhinopanda.net/2008/05/27/politics-lesson-for-the-year-avoid-pastors/#comment-738 Bethany Wed, 28 May 2008 18:49:53 +0000 http://onefinemess.wordpress.com/?p=325#comment-738 Maybe we shouldn't use academic definitions for Christianity then. <b>Christians</b> could nowhere in scripture defend something like the holocaust as being God's will. It happening and God willing it are two separate things. And Christianity is the opposite of predestination. If God made his will reign supreme, there wouldn't be so many people willfully misrepresenting Him. Maybe we shouldn’t use academic definitions for Christianity then. Christians could nowhere in scripture defend something like the holocaust as being God’s will. It happening and God willing it are two separate things. And Christianity is the opposite of predestination. If God made his will reign supreme, there wouldn’t be so many people willfully misrepresenting Him.

]]> By: Andy http://onefinemess.rhinopanda.net/2008/05/27/politics-lesson-for-the-year-avoid-pastors/#comment-733 Andy Wed, 28 May 2008 14:17:16 +0000 http://onefinemess.wordpress.com/?p=325#comment-733 It depends on what you believe about predestination/will of god/free choice and relationship between the 3. I'm not sure I have the energy to go into it on a blog, but maybe sometime in real life when I'm awake. It depends on what you believe about predestination/will of god/free choice and relationship between the 3. I’m not sure I have the energy to go into it on a blog, but maybe sometime in real life when I’m awake.

]]> By: Bethany http://onefinemess.rhinopanda.net/2008/05/27/politics-lesson-for-the-year-avoid-pastors/#comment-732 Bethany Wed, 28 May 2008 02:19:02 +0000 http://onefinemess.wordpress.com/?p=325#comment-732 Wait. Sorry. Where did you get the impression that Christians had to/did believe that the holocaust was the will of God?!?! Are you serious? Wait.
Sorry.
Where did you get the impression that Christians had to/did believe that the holocaust was the will of God?!?! Are you serious?

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